IT MAKES SENSE TO THEM SOLEDAD: BUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN VOTERS VIEW FACTS THROUGH A PARTISAN LENS. FILTERING THROUGH THE FACTS THEY WANT TO SEE AND HEAR AND DISMISSING FACTS THEY DON'T AGREE WITH? THEN FACTOR IN SOCIAL MEDIA HOW CAN THAT SHAPE AN ELECTION? WHITNEY PHILLIPS, IS AN ASSISTANT PROFESSOR AT SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY WHO TEACHES MEDIA LITERACY, MIS- AND DISINFORMATION AND POLITICAL COMMUNICATION. PROFESSOR PHILLIPS, NICE TO HAVE YOU. LET'S START WITH THE PHRASES DISINFORMATION AND MISINFORMATION. YOU'VE BEEN STUDYING THIS KIND OF THING FOR QUITE A WHILE. WHAT DID YOU START SEEING, LET'S SAY, IN 2016 AND THEN ELECTION? >> THE THING ABOUT 2016 THAT WAS MOST STRIKING AND THAT I STUDIED MOST DIRECTLY WAS ISSUES OF AMPLIFICATION. SO WHETHER SOMETHING WAS MISINFORMATION, SO FALSE OR MISLEADING INFORMATION INADVERTENTLY SPREAD OR DISINFORMATION, FALSE OR MISLEADING INFORMATION DELIBERATELY, PURPOSEFULLY SPREAD WHEN JOURNALISTS OR EVERYDAY PEOPLE WOULD RESPOND TO IT. EVEN TO DEBUNK IT, THAT WOULD AMPLIFY THE DISINFORMATION. AND IT WOULD MAKE IT, IT WOULD GIVE IT SORT OF A LONGER TAIL. ESSENTIALLY, IT WOULD ALLOW IT TO TRAVEL MORE PLACES TO MORE AUDIENCES, TO MORE UNPREDICTAB EFFECTS. SOLEDAD: IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IT'S JUST NOT ONLINE, BUT YOU CAN DEFINITELY SEE EVEN IF INTERVIEWS ON CAMERA THAT PEOPLE DO WHERE THE WHOLE POINT IS TO HAVE ONE PHRASE THAT GETS ELEVATED. >> IN A WAY IT'S ABOUT MAKING SOMETHING, NOT JUST GO VIRAL, BUT TURN IT INTO A MEME, YOU CAN TAKE AN HOUR-LONG INTERVIEW. IT THEN IS REDUCED DOWN TO THE FIVE SECOND SOUNDBITE AND THEN IT SPINS OFF INTO A MILLION DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS. AND WHEN THAT IS WEAPONIZED, THAT CAN HAVE REALLY PROFOUND CONSEQUENCES FOR PUBLIC DISCOURSE. SOLEDAD: DO YOU THINK SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS, LET'S PICK FACEBOOK, FOR EXAMPLE, COULD D A BETTER JOB? I MEAN, IS THE TECHNOLOGY THERE TO ACTUALLY PLUCK OUT WHAT I DISINFORMATION, WHAT IS FALSE? WHAT IS A FALSE NARRATIVE INTENTIONALLY AND SHUT IT DOWN? >> SO YOU LOOK AT SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS, ESPECIALLY FACEBOOK, THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY ENORMOUS LOGISTIC CHALLENGES AND LABOR CHALLENGES TO MODERATING THOSE KINDS OF PLATFORMS. SO I'M NOT SAYING THAT MODERATION IS AS SIMPLE AS FLIPPING A SWITCH. IT'S NOT THAT. BUT WHEN YOU SEE PERSISTENTLY OVER YEARS THE SAME KINDS OF PROBLEMATIC, HARMFUL, HATEFUL, DEHUMANIZING CONTENT ALLOWED AND NOT JUST ALLOWED BUT INCENTIVIZED TO SPREAD RECOMMENDED TO OTHER USERS, IT BE REALLY BEGINS TO LOOK LIKE THAT CONTENT IS, IF NOT EMBRACED AND ENJOYED BY FACEBOOK, THEN TOLERATED. SOLEDAD: I'M BEGINNING TO COME TO THE REALIZATION THAT FACTS JUST DON'T MATTER TO SOME PEOPLE. AND WHAT DO YOU RECOMMEND? WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE RIGHT WAY TO NAVIGATE THAT? >> WELL, I THINK THAT SO IF 2016 WAS THE ELECTION OF AMPLIFICATION, 20, 20 HAS PROVEN ITSELF TO BE AN ELECTION OF THE LIMITATION OF FACTS. THAT FACTS ARE ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL. BUT FACTS AND FACTS ALONE ARE NOT ENOUGH TO CORRECT SOME OF THE WORST, MOST INSIDIOUS, MOST HARMFUL INFORMATION THAT IS SPREADING AROUND ONLINE. AND YOU CAN LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, FAR RIGHT CONSPIRACY THEORIES LIKE QANON OR THE DEEP STATE OR ANY OTHER KINDS OF CODED DENIALISM. THOSE THEORIES. EVEN AFTER ALL OF THE FACT CHECKING, ALL OF THE DEBUNKING, ALL OF THE CAREFUL RESPONSES BY JOURNALISTS WHO ARE DOING THEIR BEST, THOSE THEORIES HAVE NOT JUST NOT GONE AWAY. THEY'VE ACTUALLY BECOME MORE PREVALENT. SO WE NEED TO ESSENTIALLY RE LEARN OUR RELATIONSHIP OR REIMAGINE OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH FACTS. SOLEDAD: HOW DO YOU REIMAGINE A RELATIONSHIP WITH FACTS? I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS. >> SO MOST PEOPLE THINK THAT WHEN THEY GOOGLE THINGS ONLINE AND WHEN THEY START SEEING RESULTS, THAT THAT'S REFLECTIVE OF OBJECTIVE REALITY. BUT THAT'S NOT THAT'S REFLECTIVE OF WHAT THE ALGORITHMS ARE FEEDING PEOPLE. AND SO IF YOU'RE A QANON BELIEVER OR YOU'RE QANON CURIOUS, THE ALGORITHM KIND OF CAN TELL THAT BASED ON THE THINGS YOU SEA